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The Perfect Carbon Fiber Pickleball Paddle?

Last updated on December 12th, 2023 at 08:05 pm

Interview with Spartus pickleball paddle founder: Josh Kim

Josh Kim had extra time while on hiatus and after leaving the private equity world. One of his friends invited him to play pickleball with a group that met weekly, and he had been hearing about the hype, so he decided to try it out. He was instantly addicted to the sport, and his entrepreneurial background kicked in. He had a hunch that there was a hole in the market for value pickleball paddles. As it turns out, he was right. 

Since its launch less than a year ago, his first version of carbon fiber pickleball paddles is sold out, and the newest pickleball paddle has presold so many that he needed to increase production. Has Josh created the perfect carbon fiber pickleball paddle? Watch our interview with Spartus founder Josh Kim to find out. 




Welcome to Simply pickleball the podcast where we discuss all things pickleball.


The fastest growing sport in America and around the world. We’re interviewing the founders, industry leaders, athletes


lovers of the sport that are driving the spectacular growth. If you love pickleball as much as we do, listen in.


Hi I’m Crystal Brown your host and I’m thrilled to have spent time with Josh Kim the founder of Spartus pickleball paddles.


Have you ever wondered what your paddle is made of or how it’s constructed?  Well today you’re going to


hear a little bit about Josh’s journey to becoming a Founder, how he grew to love pickleball, and learn a little bit


more about how paddles are made. Okay now to the show. Thank you Josh I’m really


excited to talk to you today about your company and appreciate you taking the time out of your day because I know


being an entrepreneur is really you know time consuming. Unless you know of course it’s about pickleball and then you probably make a lot of time to play


pickleball. So I met you at


the Presidio.  To learn about how you got it started and about you and your background and maybe can you just tell


me a little bit about you know what were you doing before you started at the paddle company and and then how you got


started on on Spartus.  I want to preface by saying that

Josh’s Career Path


um to most people from the outside my career path looks like random dots but I promise you it will connect with my


babies yes okay so let me start way back because it’s relevant to Sparta’s uh


College I started biomedical engineering so it’s a mix of you know mechanical engineering you know um Material Science


and things like that so I had a touch of Education behind sort of some of the stuff I’m doing but the biggest piece of


Education I learned back then first semester in college and I promised all this ties back just bear with me first


submission that’s great yeah um I was one of those kids you know in high school I got a perfect SATs perfect everything in you know in college you


sort of you know you sort of experience Freedom like like Pure Freedom for the first time so oh yeah it was part of the


high school but not to the extent you know in high school in college so I wasn’t doing well on first first semester in uh college so my dad he was


an executive at one of the largest Korean mobile phone manufacturers they sent me to the factory for the summer


because he was like you know maybe you’ll get a taste of you know what you need to understand what education is


about why don’t you give it get a taste of blue color broke to see if that’s what you like so what about the crack of


dawn to ride the bus to rural like remote area where the factory was and I was literally part of the factory line


wow using the phones and little did I know 15 years later that experience in


the factory line will give me a taste of understanding now that I’m working you know building my own products how you


know the supply chain works you know as an American you don’t know that it’s really hard for Americans to just assume


that there’s people behind like hand manufacturing everything yeah but there’s specialized machines when


there’s not at all all right yeah anyway so I thought that was really cool I was talking about Dad about this recently


but so I did that I absolutely by the way just totally agree that some of these early experiences that you don’t


know why when they’re gonna come back around for you absolutely so that’s really interesting and good for him for


giving you some real world experience yeah so after that that sort of turned my you know perspective around the

Law School


bowling College after that I went to law school um I did intellectual property law for three and a half years some of my


specialties were in biotech but also worked a lot with Material Science so again you know for that time


um as a lawyer I was you know very familiar with Rd practices because I’m only talking with inventors day in day


out wow yeah and then you know during that time I got really really lucky in


my second year I was on a high profile Supreme Court case and I was one of two lead authorities bringing Narcan into


the states and I realized I was a junior associate at the time again I was this is purely by Fortune I landed on these


cases I realized this is not the career path for me because you know 10 years on the line when you’re a partner you’re


still doing that kind of work you know it sounds interesting most people enjoy it but you know I want a more creative


spaces you know work on sort of things that interest me rather than sure um you know working for your partner


who’s working for a client it was you know I ever let pretty quickly you know it’s not what I want to enjoy for the rest of my life you know the pay was


there you know that the procedures are all of that but you know those aren’t really that’s not doesn’t really line up with my value system so I went to


business school I went to Northwestern to get my business degree and uh my MBA that was a really good time I really


enjoyed Evanston Chicago I still miss the Chicago Summers to be honest well


they certainly have to be better than the San Francisco Summers and then I’ve worked a little I worked a year in


private Equity when I moved over here after um after my time in Chicago one of my


buddies who was a co-founder Square had a new startup at the time here and he asked me to be the CEO of his company it


was called Bali and we were really lucky to be able to sell that company 10 months after I joined Marketo she’s not


a public company bought us out yeah so part of the deal is we had to work with Marketa so we were I was at


Marketa for a little less than a year before I was recruited by another Square guy who had another early start


stationary was his coo for two years um scaled out his company from literally


zero to 12 million AR so annual recurring Revenue with over 100 000 paid


users from zero so that was my role at that company on basically 50 of the company reported into me my primary role


uh was to get to those big Milestones yeah and my you know those four or five years in you know fintech early stage


startups is like pretty grueling it was really taxing but even more so when I was then I was a lawyer you’re basically


I was working basically to midnight every single day it barely went out did no breaks yeah it’s it’s interesting


because I think that is the startup story for a lot of people they don’t see the grind and the hustle in the beginning they only see the success


later yeah the thing is like the my friends and I are not very media based folks so you don’t year I was you know


going after media stories all the time whereas like the ones that you see on techlunch all the time is people always like talking about their wins all the


time and cover you know the hard periods that you’re going through day in day out you know yes so we’re just I mean it was


fire on fire you know especially when you’re working with a lean team you’ve got to make it work totally it was super


fun it was super rewarding um and the experience there and as the Lord and in primary equity and in the factory line


all carried over to what I’m doing now so after I left grid I needed a break so I was you know on a sabbatical just


chilling one of my friends from business school she always asked me to play tennis with her and I grew up playing tennis a lot did you yeah I was going to


ask you if you’re a rocket sport person it was there was a time when I was way more fit than I am now


I wanna I’m trying to get back there uh it’s hard when you’re 35. I think tennis but she introduced me to you know


pickleball like she had started this pickleball group that I told you about yeah on Thursday nights so I was like


okay you know sure I have a lot of time and the first time I went I immediately


realized why it’s picking up steam it was so obvious to me like you I couldn’t tell just about looking at it because


coming from tennis you know you’re you know you expect like explosive Sports things like that I mean when you watch


it from a bar you’re like oh is that sort of like you know right or until you


get on the court yourself and then you realize well you know it does record there is a lot of competition you know


but the best part from my perspective was people who pick up a pickleball paddle for the first time you know feel


like they can get the ball over the net pretty quickly whereas in tennis you know once and monster lessons right


that’s a good point so like a a low barrier to entry to just get started yeah good point exactly and the social


aspect is the best part you’re never going to see people at the tennis courts behaving the way


I know so I mean you hear people like hooting and hollering and laughing and cheering each other on and the minute


there’s a good point it’s like you know everyone else knows around that it happened yeah I saw this really really

Is it okay to play with strangers


cool quote yesterday online and so basically the premise of the the first


poster was like you know is it okay to play with strangers and people I’m just starting and one of the common people


that commented the goal that was like when I first started I played only with strangers but now I play with friends oh


that’s so nice yeah that was my experience at in the Presidio too like aside from the friends that I already


had like I know a lot of the people there you know so do everyone there just by being there all the time I want this


that’s a really good point and I I think just to highlight and that you know I’ve traveled around playing pickleball in a


couple different cities and what I find is like there’s so many different ages and you might hang out with someone


playing pickleball that you would never interact with otherwise and if you’re


alone or lonely you just go to the pickle part ball court or if you have a group of friends you can go to the pickleball court so I think it does


cross a lot of a range of people playing you’re so right comparing it to tennis very different sport yeah 100 of the big


Social Club yeah so while I was playing you know obviously you know as you advance the


skill I was playing with my friends paddle at the time she just meant me in it all the time I think it was uh I


think it was like the onyxy but one of the ones a lot of people started with I personally didn’t like the feel of it I wanted something where I could get


better fuel so I started looking into uh you know what panels were in the market that’s more you know UPS up market and


sort of more premium so then you’re you know that’s what engage was still like a very popular company crbm was like you


know up on the rise things like that and then I was when I was looking at this carbon paddles and some of the other


ones out there it was you know based on my experience you know in this you know in the factory line and


just my understanding of warranty this it seemed pretty clear to me that a lot of these battles was sort of being built


in the same places this is before the market become aware of this as a matter of fact one of my posts on


um edits I read it pickleball is the third most liked posts on that subreddit and I’ve talked about this in detail


there I was like hey you know what I started you know I confirmed that by sort of contacting a lot of these


backers until you know it was until I you know I felt very comfortable thinking that yeah these factors are


making this Factor makes carbons this Factory you know make cell quirks you know China made ones et cetera et cetera


and I thought you know based on the price margins like the margins that they’re making is way too high my


primary line of thinking there was tennis rackets right now in this day cost around 250 dollars if you want to


get one it will soon as like premium rackets right same two Wilson and blades


for 12 years now I restarted pickleball paddles also are 250 right 33


like for example if you buy like the cell curve you know projects and I was like well you can’t replace you know you


had to replace the whole paddle when it’s working right right you can’t there’s no restringing it yeah so from like an economic standpoint it just


didn’t it didn’t fit within like the structures that you know I had in my head especially when I was working in


private Equity I also saw a very fragmented Market with it you know right now there’s a thousand different manufacturers but back then there’s


maybe a hundred and normally when you see these like fragmented markets and a lot of private Equity people will tell


you is a roll-up opportunity what that means is you know someone comes in and starts to you know you know just Little


M A’s basically right that’s not what I was thinking but I was thinking there’s an opportunity you know so Wayne just


explain that a little bit more so you mean you know basically one bigger brand will end up kind of buying up some of


the smaller Brands and then consolidate there’s that or usually there’s a third party that comes in to do that which I


see you Middle Market private Equity firms um yeah basically their focus is sort of


get one of the line items down and then increase the profits that way and then they could boost the entire value of the whole portfolio gotcha so going back to


so what will you just to be clear what you think what you were seeing in the beginning was a bunch of rackets that or


sorry paddles I keep saying that because people keep asking me about Rockets I was looking at at Search terms and


actually a lot of people do search for pickleball Rockets but it is a paddle so with with the paddles they were


basically being manufactured in the same way just different branding that’s what you’re saying yeah and the problem I had

Missing Marketing


personally I think this is where like my loyal or lawyer side comes in is like there was a little bit in my view of


like missed marketing going on because companies were like oh you know this is brand new stuff it’s like the logo is


new and that’s right you know so you know so part of the goal was not only


bringing a you know really good value to the market but also design it in a way that I thought actually looks good that


that was a sort of secondary objective of mine I just personally thought a lot of the battles didn’t have good design


like aesthetic elements but the primary focus to bring value to the market like I want to make sure that


the consumers get you know the most valuable their dollar and I didn’t see that at the time and right now you’re


starting to see that movement needle moving that direction far far faster because the company is like mindvatic


Pro rhombus Legacy the much higher performance pedals than you know it’s carbon which is you know one you know 50


explorers that’s sometimes so tell me about that construction so how did you figure out what the construction was


that was going to work best and you know because a lot of consumers maybe after they’re a beginner beginner they might


just buy sort of a paddle or borrow friends like you did and but after that


there’s they they have this question it’s like which paddle should I buy and you know how did you figure out the


construction for Spartus that that you felt was going to perform the best for sure um I’ll start with the first model

The Gladius


and then the the black one with the ballista that you’re uh Brooklyn used because that was a very different uh


process so the Gladius is something like a lot of other companies did it’s you


can just put I selected something because I wasn’t very familiar at the time with all the different you know


techs out there so I wouldn’t say very risky and the whole goal for that was to bring value to the market so the only


adjustment I really did is sort of lower the spinning weight a little bit by pushing the center of mass a little bit


down um that was just personal preference I thought there’s a lot of players switching over from tennis like myself


who’s going to be more familiar with the lower string weight however so I’m going to be I’m open about this that you know


if you want like basically a carbon paddle for way less go with go with Gladius it’s the same thing and why why


carbon like does that you know I mean I use a carbon surface paddle myself and hopefully is yours but what


what you know what why is that important so what I was talking about carbon um

Carbon Fiber


previously was the company crbm but okay carbon fiber on the face is right now


the most popular premium you know material for the faces of like more


higher performance models and there’s a few reasons first is there’s regulations that the usap


um mandates that you have to fall within for your battle to be approved gotcha and one of them is the stiff stiffness


of the paddle so there’s something called deflection and the best way to think about this is if your paddle sort


of has a trampoline effect your paddle will fail so the stiffness of the pedal


matters and so far the industry has found that the car a certain type of carbon fiber which is called t700 has


you know a very good mix of uh sniff this stiffness and durability for example if you go to T800 it is too


brutal you know it might be a little bit stiffer but you’re going to find that it actually shatters at times


um interesting T700 has been consistently shown to uh have properties


where you’re going to have the stiffness that falls within your CPU regulations without the deflection and has a


durability to get you much one second is you can apply a grit to it into the


carbon fiber itself there’s also regulations around how much grit you can have but the carbon fiber and certain


other materials you can basically Max it out without failing gotcha that’s that’s why carbon fiber is really popular when


you compare it to like fiberglass most the time most people will say you get more fuel off the base um yeah I would


say like 98 99 of people yeah so both your paddles are with the carbon construction that’s right that’s right


although we use a preparatory layer on top of the ballista that we’ve been


testing for months that we found actually has better better grip properties


on its own and you know there’s a misconception in the market around


um exactly what raw carbon fiber means a lot of people in the market actually thinks that raw carbon fiber is just how


carbon fiber is naturally the grid is actually formed when you put like this Matrix on the curing or the carbon fiber


so it’s not the carbon fiber is still treated um and the particles come off as the


ball hits it so that’s why even with um you know any my my Gladius or any other


company is coming fiber pedals you’ll start to see it smooth out because that’s inevitable well so that was the


question I had so like you know how long how long can can someone use their paddle I mean do what’s our expectation


right you said you have your tennis racket for 12 years but I mean I see people moving through paddles right now


because there’s so many coming out that people want to try to they somehow think the paddle is going to really up their


game and maybe it does I’m not saying it does not impact your game I think it for sure can but I think there’s a lot of


other things that you need to do to get there I’m going to be the first to say that if you expect a pedal to make you go

How a paddle will change your game


 from a 3-5 player that’s not going to happen yeah not at all um there’s no there’s no equipment out


there that’s going to only change your game it’s going to change their feel yeah the way you feel about yourself


playing um is going to change how you know the ball feels for you yeah by the way it


might be a better fit for how you know natural your swing is at that point things like that yeah if you expect a


pedal to suddenly make the ball go at 100 miles an hour on every time


that’s a machine so you so you constructed so you started with your sort of first of first one and for a lot


of entrepreneurs what do they say if you if you’re not embarrassed to put out your first product then you waited too


long so in some ways it’s like you you know done is better than perfect you put something out really thoughtful and then


you learn from it and then you create the second one and that’s sort of where you are right now yeah well the first one I was very confident about here

Building an online reputation


because this is before a lot of the value companies started coming in of literally one of the first me and bombos


that’s awesome um so and we were really fortunate to be able to build up an online reputation


um I I tell people this right now like had I started today or even in June I don’t think I would have been able to


launch like properly at all I think I would have failed with the amount of saturation and how skeptical even like


Reddit or Discord communities are at this point um and the way that we built up the


reputation was uh purely to transparency I just you know I was very open about


even my cost structure um the user base on Discord on Reddit again one of my posts was the third most


liked Post in all of that suburb is history that’s awesome I didn’t intend it for that it’s just how I am well I


think people want transparency and they and they want to be educated they don’t want to understand yeah and I think it’s

Consumer Choice


purely the consumer’s Choice like you know you like what you hear you can buy it if you don’t like it sure go somewhere else it’s fine with things I I


also didn’t like how a lot of companies were sort of riding the pickleball wave at the in the beginning sort of sort of


saying some mistruce and I didn’t want to fall into that pattern totally yeah the second pedal the ballista this one


is cool because this is built from the ground up this is after um my team especially me got a better


understanding of all of the processes all of the materials um the final versions The Almost the


20th iteration wow six months we spent a ton of time


building all paddles um takes a long time because especially when you start quote-unquote thermal


forming if you’ve heard of that term no I don’t know yeah so that was kind of that’s the


called the Gen generation two pedals so when you think about Legacy Pro the crbm 1X the power Edition


um the battery Pro on the 60 Double Black Diamond those are the ones are dominated in the new market right now


um so basically the only difference between that and the Gen 1 panels is you take um


you take carbon fiber and you also put it around the entire paddle then you put it put into a custom mold and then you


heat press it for interesting 15 to 30 minutes um at a very high temperature so carbon


fiber has a negative um coefficient of thermoplasticity what that means is most materials will uh


become bigger when you heat it so carbon Chiropractic strings they’re very interesting ah interesting makes a


stiffer so when you see people in the court with the Legacy Pro you can notice that the bottom bounces off


right because it’s thermal form on the flip side um because of the manufacturing process units


um they end up becoming delaminated at a fairly High rate the elimination is when the base separates from the core


um and that’s illegal so there was problems with that oh interesting a lot of them have been able to solve a lot of


that we don’t have that issue because of the materials and the lamination issues they do anyway so we we also don’t


perform this although that’s not a highlight of the bullets so basically we were planning around I think the process


is basically anything you do in science right you come up with a hypothesis you have it Baseline understanding right


hypothesis and then you see if it comes out in reality and you make your adjustments and that was a process for


uh 18 times wow and so so you’re and this this Barack it’s not it’s not out


on the market yet you’re pre-selling right it’s for pre-sales but you know the demand was quite high on the for



like literally off the once we opened the gate so we already increased the production on day one or right right


because we didn’t think um we can fulfill all the orders from


the first bash I will come in so uh lucky lucky for us you know that’s the situation right now but


um we hope that you know the customers really really see the value and see the performance of this um yeah so far the


play testers have been posting online about the performance so people are starting to you know oh well I can tell you that my partner he as soon as he


played with it he was like I don’t want to play with anything else so he was ready it was ready so so where do


you see you know like as a company um you know so what I didn’t understand before and I do understand now is really


trying to Target the value market and um you know or provide value so that you


can have mass adoption um and how do you see yourself growing as a company do you think that you’ll


come out with more and more rackets do you think that you’ll just keep perfecting the one sorry why do I see keep saying rackets panels a lot of


people say that it’s right I know I know but it’s it it’s I I’ve never played a rocket sport so it’s just so do you


think paddles uh you know it’s just sort of like what’s the arc what would be your


hope for what comes next uh we actually have two two more panels as we release uh pretty quickly after this one’s



already but um we just need to uh submit it for the usap testing and then in a


manner that makes sense for the business problem in terms of timing um in terms of


um and I can give you details on that because we’ve been fairly open about it on yeah well not I mean even Brands


where you know like if you look at a sell Kirk paddle some of them have very different grips some of them have different weights and


um you know curious how you chose your weight so it wouldn’t be surprising to me if you have a few different paddles i


i as a for for whatever reason I need a very light paddle and some people really do to avoid


um you know what’s now probably pickleball elbow but it used to be called tennis on though


yeah um Weight Wise um I can give a little insight on some of the stuff we did



there was one um point I think back in late January we actually did manufacture


and test a 7.15 ounce paddle way less yeah what’s typical what would be a


typical panel all right so 7.9 to 8.1 is the usual threshold um a lot of Pros


like to uh wait it out put more weight yeah the 8.4 range um obviously for you


know there’s sort of several reasons they do that they want to expand The Sweet Spot while increasing the power


um they I mean if you watch a lot of the pros they have much shorter swings than many players do yeah so yeah yeah you


get sort of a little bit less you know sometimes yeah so basically they you know they have their different each


player is a different reason for doing that um but the standard weight is between 7.9 and 8.1 ounce yeah yeah 1.15 I can


tell you um from a lot of the play testers it was it was too like it generated way too little power


um and the feel the energy absorption was way was not there so it was really


hard to feel the ball um from their perspective now people with tennis elbow are pickleball I’m sure would appreciate


that well there’s such a range of players so you know if in terms of like how you think about targeting like are


you going to be able to make everyone happy or do you try to put out the best paddle that would be for anyone to play

Performance Value


with well right now the two Dimensions that we focus on is performance and value so uh there’s hopefully maybe come


a time where we can you know um what’s it called have um some paddles sort of focus more on like you know the


pickleball elbow and things like that one of the guys I met with recently


um I randomly met the senior vice president for engage um three days ago and he was encouraged


I don’t know why so he was encouraging me to build like one of those extra um practice pedals where like the head


is like this big oh and yeah me too he kept trying to convince me that they’re super popular and I was


like okay I’m not sure where they’re popular yeah I’m gonna have to look at that I have to look that up but I mean


you were saying like for your next iterations of paddles you know how do you think about going from I mean you


haven’t even put out the ballista yet but everyone’s eagerly awaiting but you


know what comes next or what do you hope yeah so you know hopefully we got you know the Bliss out into the market you


know and it’s you know well adopted uh the next panel that we had the next two pedals we have are a thermal so a hot


molded version of our Gladius that was a natural one to build given you know


basically everyone’s moved on to gen two um and then the third one is we want to move the Gladius 2 like basically a


starter level panel so we’ve been working on the outside interesting to bring our calls down uh so we were able


to bring our calls down quite significantly recently so we can actually introduce a little bit more Tech into the Gladius and then set the


price down lower to make it even more of an entry so basically there’ll be no


reason to like try out like the honesty diet for example that’s awesome and so where where are you selling your product


right now right now it’s only on our website although there are um and then we have some wholesale deals some


Distributors um out there um and then there is a couple um


Dropship Partnerships we’ve been trying out like infinite pickleball but primarily I would say 99 of ourselves


are straight through our website so tell me about what you see the future of so for you like do you and


because this can turn you know a much bigger company you know selling all types of things you can


continue to do paddles maybe a pro starts playing with your paddle I mean what what what what would be the vision


for you what do you hope happens you know I actually asked this question quite frequently oh really yeah it’s



hard to answer I mean I’ll start with the latter sub question because we do have other stuff in the works like


apparel is coming up I personally you know don’t want to I as individual want to touch that but we just have too much


requests coming in for that I have a bunch of samples of shirts we’ve actually been giving a lot of those for


free until we get to like you know a shirt that we think is more like you know putting out in their market for you


know yeah um and then a bag you know pickleball bags are coming up too


um but in terms of the you know overall question about you know scalability of the company things like that


um you know I really like you know small companies personally I think I sort of shared with you you know my career path


yeah sort of position myself you know in a smaller company setting you know by


will most of the time yeah when Marquetta acquired us I didn’t want to be there and we were at that point we


got acquired in at 100 people and by the time I decided I can’t be there anymore it was like almost 200. yeah there’s too


much you know bureaucracy keep creeping it you have to know what I mean it’s your life right you have to know where


you do best and what you really want to be doing and I and that makes a lot of sense um so we’ll see you know I’ll do what I



can you know what I have to do to you know keep this company moving forward uh


to the extent that I can yeah you know with business you never know how I know you got to go where water’s flowing so


tell me how you came up with the name where did where is the name from oh that was actually way harder anyway


I had so many stupid ideas


Google doc of all the names that you know we were going through oh that’s so fun stupid oh there were many don’t lose


that that’s history yeah yeah there were a lot of examples um I got a lot of my friends


um you know a lot of the feedback that gave me was basically you know there’s a dumbest hunting I’ve ever heard not


smart a lot of this stuff you came up with in the beginning um but yeah it was just a process of


just uh spitting things out conceptualizing sort of what you want the brand uh to be


about um and then eventually um there was a point I landed on


um what was it bar for some reason I can’t remember how it came up and I felt like I was on the


right track I sent it to um actually one of the girls I sent it to was at the pickleball courts Presidio


when you were there yeah um and she was like oh that sounds a little too short and too you know quite


Irish you know whatever I was like okay whatever sat on that came up with some other stuff and eventually


um I was like sponsor it sounds like Sparta because I have a I have some Affinity towards like ancient Greek Roman culture yeah and then I was like I


could just cut the um spark to kiss yeah and then landed on Sparta I was like oh two syllables or


something interesting and I was thinking about it circulated that around it got less negative feedback than all of you


it is good though I mean when you think about it like you know it’s I mean it is a competitive sport it can be fun but


you know that does have that element of like you know Romans like Sparta you


know that’s great I think it’s a great name and very um it’s very memorable and I think I


think you’re branding’s great so I I well thank you for sharing you know the con teaching me a little bit more about


paddle construction and about your your past and your future I think it’s really I always find it really interesting to


hear sort of the dots that were connected into the business that you start um I that is for sure the only way you


get somewhere is by learning in every piece of your career so it’s really exciting and I’m excited to see when


this when the ballista comes out and your launch and you know keep us posted on what’s coming next for you and so


just super excited thank you so much for your time and and for sharing your story I really appreciate it yeah thanks for


having me I’ll see you on the course hey guys thanks for listening to Simply Pickleball we will be back very soon


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