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Simply Pickleball Podcast with Bread & Butter CEO Doug Sapusek

Bread & Butter CEO Doug Sapusek holding a pickleball paddle

Bread & Butter pickleball paddles stand out on the court, boasting cutting-edge construction and fantastic design. Doug Sapusek, the founder, channeled his passion for pickleball into establishing a company, crafting a brand, and producing a line of paddles specifically aimed at top players, all while ensuring a distinctive and unique design.

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So the reason why we did this paddle real quick is because the filth is an elongated paddle and this is a hybrid shaped paddle.So it’s a little bit shorter, a little bit wider, little bit bigger of a sweet spot, also 16 millimeters.It’s going to have a lower swing weight and it’s a little bit faster in the hand.


Hi, I’m Crystal Brown and we caught up with Doug Sapiusik, who’s the founder and owner of Bread and Butter Pickleball Paddles.He shares the most recent USA Pickleball approved paddle he just dropped called The Filth.He gives us a sneak peek.Into the newest paddle, coming soon called The Loco and what he plans to bring to the market in 2024.


You won’t want to miss this episode.Now to the show.Welcome to Simply Pickleball, the podcast where we discuss all things Pickleball, the fastest growing sport in America and around the world.We are interviewing the founders, industry leaders, athletes, lovers of the sport that are driving the spectacular growth.


If you love pickleball as much as we do, listen in.Okay, awesome.Well, thank you so much Doug Sapusik for joining today.I’m really excited to get into bread and butter.It’s been a paddle that and paddle company that I’m super excited about and it’s real obvious, but I think a lot of the listeners want to hear.


What I want to take into a little more is.About all the paddles that you’ve created and the design and more interestingly the brand that can, you have a really high functioning, powerful paddle out there that also has a cool, sexy, awesome design.So that’s what I want to dig into today before we get too much into paddles.


Can you just give me a little bit of a background?I know you were in the Marine Corps and that’s a long time ago, but where did you start on this path of being interested in brand?Because that seems to be a thread and a lot of the businesses that you’ve been a part of.Yeah, no.Well first of all thanks for having me on.And it’s a good way to end the week.


You knock something like this out and then just like, alright, I’m.I’m gonna start my weekend early.I’m super excited.This is the best part of my week.I joke that I’m gonna take the rest of the day off, but like you like have all this lighting going on, but like our offices are also our studio where we shoot all of our paddles and we have the paddle that we’re dropping.


You’ll see that shot that’s back.There was our last shot that we did and like we just had the film guy here that I use, buddy of mine named Leo Cuomo.And we sat around and shot stuff for the last 2 1/2 hours.So as soon as this is done, product photography, launch graphics, updating the website, pushing everything.


OK, well, we’re going to get to that, so don’t spoil yet that new paddle.Drop back to like, just to simply answer your question, like history, like how we started doing all this, where this all came from probably is one of those teenagers that I wouldn’t say probably, but I don’t.


My parents don’t get online that much, but if they were to watch us, they’d laugh.They heard me say that I probably didn’t get along with them that well.I was like a tough pain in the butt kid.So I wanted to get out of my house like as quickly as possible after high school.And that’s why I joined the Marine Corps.


And it’s like, no secret is it was like, I wanted like independence.I wanted to do my own thing.My mom always jokes that I said, and I, I probably did say, this is like, screw you, I’m joining the Marine Corps.Like I want to control my own life.I don’t want anybody looking over my shoulder and telling me what I can and can’t do it.


So I joined early, ended up working in an administrative field.They call that a Pogue in the Marine Corps.So I basically ended up doing a bunch of administration stuff and basically made sure people got paid and all that.So I very quickly learned a bunch of administrative skills that I didn’t have, but also learn that I don’t like administrative stuff.


Yeah.And I can knock it out.But like, as I got into my future, I realized that, like, I have to hire that stuff out and have an organized person to take care of the messes that I’m making or the business.Yeah, so.But sometimes when you do a job like that, it’s good because you know what you’re looking for when you need someone to help you 100%.


And whenever you start one of these startups like that, like, you know you’re doing it all.You’re doing the marketing, you’re doing the social, you’re doing all that stuff.And like, if I didn’t have the previous experience that I had, I probably would have waited before I started hiring people to take care of that stuff.Because I’ve had that experience.


Like that stuff got handled really quickly.And I’m no longer having to deal with, like I only did it for the first six months and that’s like been done, yeah, whole lot so.So when you were younger though, I think I’ve heard you mentioned before that you’re interested in brand and design and maybe something, I don’t know, whether you skateboarded or surfed or you know there’s there’s a lot of brands that are really cool in that space.


Yeah, I mean I was like AZ Cabarici’s kid slash that like I don’t know if you are you, I don’t even know.I don’t know if you’re old enough to know what Z cabaric are, but like, just think.Like, I don’t know if it’s an age thing.I just don’t know what it is.Oh yeah, Well, yeah.So Zeke Bavaricis were like, they became popular right around Can’t Touch this MC Hammer came out and like, they’re these.


Yeah, these super designer pants that, like, flared out.I mean, they’re absolutely ridiculous.Imagine like skinny jeans at the bottom and then like.Oh yeah, OK.I just didn’t know what they were called, but obviously if you just said MC Hammer pants, that’s easier.Of course, I know what those are.Yeah, these are just more like expensive though.


I remember like you know, 199394, they’re probably like $150.00 a pair and you could pick them up at like merry go round, right?So like I was always into like fashion stuff and then I I did, I skateboarded.I’ve always been into the like the surfing, the skating thing and it’s Florida lifestyle.


There’s a lot of like, you know, laid back stuff that goes on the fishing and surfing, skating, all the stuff that I mentioned.So I’ve always been into that.But I also was like, super into things.And you know, my wife still gets mad at me to this day.She’s like, you buy so much it and like, you’re not even using half of it.


And sometimes, like, I buy stuff just because I want to see, like, it may be a brand where I see something and I’m like, hey, I really like, I can afford to do it these days, but I will buy something to see if I think the packaging is like, off the chain really good.I’ll buy it because like, I’m constantly trying to, like see what the customer experience is from other people because like, and I haven’t been bashful about this before.


Like I didn’t go to college.So like, I’m very much like a learn by seeing and learn by doing.And so for me, seeing an image is like, hey, that looks cool, But like, is it really cool?And how does it make me feel when I buy this thing?Right.So.Well, for a whole another episode we could talk about my perspective on college, but I guess I have two kids in college and.


I was wondering what is the value of college?So that thread of brand you’ve kind of brought forward and I I don’t want to get too far ahead of ourselves, but what was very compelling about bread and butter is that it stood out.I mean, the very first time that I saw your paddle, my partner was wearing Grateful Dead shirt and someone had a one of your Grateful Dead inspired paddles and they were like, hey, it was like a total bonding moment and on the pickleball court.


And then a friend of mine from New York was like, Oh my God, I my favorite paddle, I’ve been trying all these paddles is the bread and butter.I think it was the drip at the time.So I think what I’m interested in is when did you first think like, OK, clearly your whole life you’ve been interested in brand and packaging and which I think is super important.


I mean, I’m an entrepreneur.I I think delighting the customer is more than half the battle.Right.Why pickleball?Like, why did you think?Because you could do other things.There’s a lot of other things you can put your packaging, awesome branding on.Yeah, no, I had an outdoor blanket company in the works.


I own the OR else we’ll say.But I had a brand spun up called Drift Dist and I really like like, outdoors camping, fly fishing, stuff like that.Like I love doing that stuff.And so I I know a lot of people in the outdoors industry.Why the pickleball though?Like why did I not execute on drift this and why did I decide to execute on bread and butter?


And it really comes down to Richard who was an old employee of mine from my previous brand who rag.We manufacture A tubular bandanas and they had grown that company.Richard had been an in house designer for us and we always had like a good relationship when he worked there.In fact he wanted to leave and go do his own thing and I encouraged him.


I was like dude, like you’re a super talented guy and like I would never tell.I’ve had employees that wanted to leave, and I’m like, man, I really don’t want this person to leave.And I’ve had him leave that I’m like, thank God they’re gone.But like, he was one of those guys where I was like, man, like, I don’t want you to leave, but I’m not going to tell you no.


In fact, if people want to look, you can go to that’s Richard Blanco’s brand.And he does like in a lot of kind of pivoted from fishing to like golf.And believe it or not, those two industries are actually really tightly connected.Interesting, especially on the higher end fishing, with the fly fishing and stuff like that, it’s like a kind of like they’re both kind of like elitist outdoor.


So that URL Slacker Tide, I actually owned that.URL was my name that I had and when he left he’d come to me and said, hey, do you care if I take the Slacker Tide name?And I’ve always liked it.I was like, dude run with it.He came to me with bread and butter.He basically had this pitch deck and said like, I don’t know if you know, pickleballs blowing up.


And I’m like have seen it’s like crazy all over the place.And he said that you been playing and I was like not really a little bit.And I was like, my momma’s like, OG been playing forever.And I was like, I’ve played with her, gone a couple times locally.And I got a friend that has a court and like, it’s fun.And he was like, well, do you want to do it?


And I was like, I love the brand he had.He had the whole deck.It was all to be clear, like he had the whole thing designed up.Even the name he had had the name, yeah, everything.It wasn’t where it was right now, but the fundamental pillars of the brand were there.


And I can’t remember if he actually had like the website graphics and like the core branding pillars, like all the like the colorways and all that totally selected.I don’t think it was, but it was very close.It wasn’t totally done.Now that I think about it, him and I in like a matter of three weeks had like everything done, like site graphics, initial designs on the paddles and you know, things slowly pivot and we change a little bit here and more for things.


But like, yeah, he’s super talented dude.And that’s like.So you could kind of see the vision of this paddle company.Was it you?Or maybe it was him or a partner trying to figure out exactly what the paddle was going to be constructed like?Because.You have experience working with Asia and manufacturing, it sounds like, but paddle construction, you have to think about why you’re making it a certain way, whether you know there’s a lot of different paddles out there.


So you had to come up with something in the beginning with your first paddle, which was the spear, right?Yeah, spear and the drip.Those are the two initial paddles we came up with.Those are traditional sandwich shaped paddles that use a polypropylene hex core.Simple construction T700 O one side UV printed with graphics edge guard around.


Not a true unibody paddle.So it is weak at the throat of the paddle.And if somebody doesn’t know when I say throat, basically referring to like right here.So what happens is if it’s not a unit body paddle, basically if you were to pull away this edge guard, this is a unibody paddle.If you’re pull away this edge guard and you were to look at the profile, the paddle, you would see exposed polymer and that basically is it.


So they just cut a shape, put T700 and wrap everything through an edge guard.But what happens is you’re really relying on polypropylene core in this area and you know the fit, it’s just physics.The 5th, the thinner something gets them, it’s a break point and that’s been like the tried and true for a long time.


But to answer your question, like, how did we figure out, like how do you go from not knowing anything about a pickleball paddle?So how do you, like, figure out there’s that.So the deal is this is it’s just being freaking relentless.It’s literally when I decided that I was going to do this and I knew that I was going to wrap up a bunch of my cash into this thing.


Like there is no, this won’t work.Like it is going to work and we’re going to like power through this and win at all costs.So when we started doing this, I joked at one point I had added up like how many hours I’ve had We’re on.We’re coming up a one year since like Richard and I like fist bumped and said hey let’s do this ship from a year.


I kind of added up everything and I’ve got like, I want to say that I added it up and it was like over 5500 hours of reading, watching, stalking, like, I mean like my wife, like literally, she’ll come to bed at night and she’ll be like now she’s getting a little more annoyed.


In the beginning she was cool.It’s like, are we really watching Pickleball again tonight?And I’m like, we’re I every YouTube, every paddle reviewer I was on, digging deep on the Internet to find out, like, what this was so.Yeah, hey, I’m right there with you.So, and that’s what what we watch going to bed sadly usually live took a ball playing, but then it got into everything else.


But still, you have to make some decisions, right?You can be relentless and learn it, but you have to make a decision.Like a gearbox paddle is a very different paddle than maybe the legacy.And for different players, they both work.So you, but you had to go in One Direction and make a decision.Sure.You brought up Gearbox and I’ll I’ll say this like if you want to talk about a company that is actually innovating in the space Gearbox, my hats off to those guys like, and I’m not one to like be like, oh, we have the best company in the world.


Like everybody does their own little thing.But Gearbox is a perfect example of like that guy that runs that thing.He’s an engineer like he is a capital NERD, is a nerd.Like he’s all over it and like, he’s really good at what he does and.By the way, I live in San Francisco.


And most of these companies that come out of here, they’re all started by nerds and it’s great.They’re the cool kids anyway.Yeah, no, let’s no for sure.That’s why.That’s why I have nothing but good to say about, you know, that company in particular, but there’s a certain element and that’s why I’ll share with you.I can say this now, but he’s not going to be full time right out of the gate.


But I have somebody that I’ve met through the Discord, that is a huge nerd, that has dedicated a ton of time talking to me, being a sounding board for me to say, hey, what do you think about this and what do you think about this shape and what do you think about swing weight and all these things?


And knows quite frankly, a lot more about the paddle manufacturing process than even I do by probably a good like 2030%.And I’ve just decided to bring him on as a consultant and he’s going to be taking over a lot of our development stuff and making sure that everything is, you know, goes a little smoother so I can focus on marketing.


Well, that’s, I mean that’s a good point if first of all I’ve been around a lot of startups, a lot of entrepreneurs, done a lot of marketing and not to pat myself on the back, but my point is just that often when you do have to do everything yourself, you have to study it and get like really go deep and so, but you must have seen kind of a hole in the market, right like.


There are a lot of paddles.It’s not like no one could find a paddle like pickleball with, but there must have been something where you think, like, I can bring a better spin to this.Like there’s a lot of different types of players out there.Yeah, no, there is.And I will tell you that I would love to say that we saw a different spin early on and we latched onto that and it was like, we’ve never second guessed it And it’s been like, perfect.


And this is what we wanted.I will tell you that there has been times in the last probably three to four months where it came when we pivoted.So we had all these fun sandwich paddles, which was the idea is like, let’s make this fun.Like let’s like have fun with it and keep it more lighthearted.


The truth is that I didn’t really know that much about the core pickleball players when we started this thing.Quite frankly got nervous because I was like, man, these players that are out there are probably looking at our brand being like Bath.There’s 652 battle companies out there.


And here’s another one trying to like put cute graphics on a paddle.You know that when you show up to the courts and there’s like good higher level rec players there.Like none of them are playing with a paddle that has cute.Like, no, I had second guessed at one point.Like, man, we even have like a backup logo for bread and butter that’s very much cleaner, simpler, and it’s like B&B pickleball.


Like it’s not even bread and butter, right?And like, right again, we designed that and like we did do that in like week three of starting this whole thing just in case we missed the mark with this thing.You know, we’ve thought about bringing it back.But the more that I get into this, I almost love the challenge of being like you know what, No, we are going to have fun with this and this is going to be a fun brand and we’re not going to be this monochromatic super tough looking company.


We’re going to make really good paddles and people are going to talk about them and they’re going to love them.We can do that.But at the end of the day, you know, I’ve said before like for me to get out of bed, like it’s got to be fun.If it’s not on marketing wise I’m not in.There’s a lot of products that have been built out there and the marketing doesn’t work.They’re great products, either the CEO or the leader of entrepreneur, they don’t really know enough to get the product out there that could be for technology that can be for, you know, direct to consumer.


So that is really important.And I in some ways think as long as you can back it up and you can say, yeah, this is a paddle that people love and you can bring good branding and then you can bring good marketing.Clearly you are an expert in branding and marketing and how did you know, like, look, I know that I have the experience if I can get this good product, I’m going to be able to market it.


How did you learn how to do that?And beyond that, you know, what did you do in the beginning to get it out there?So I will say that I come across as confident and I am a confident person, but as a human, you always like, second guess, like, man, is this actually going to work.


And you know, I remember like I’ve always heard what?What?I don’t know.You may know.Do you know what’s the quote about how many businesses fail in their first five years?I don’t know.It’s like some crazy number isn’t.It it’s, I know it’s like over 90%, but I had a lot of thoughts about that too about venture capital and blah, blah, blah.But most of them fail.


Yeah.You you know when I was like young and starting these companies and doing things like and I’ll even go back to like when I started my first business which was a a graphic, a web design like boutique little agency.And I remember reading that stat and being like oh I got like little kids.


Like I’m moving.I’m laterally moving from like 1 industry to another and like I’m going to roll the dice and hopefully be able to make six figures a year.Being a web designer like this is crazy and I was scared and I did it and it worked.


But back in the forum days, I had like a successful forum, APHPV forum and like that was a success and sold chairs and that that Hooray came along and it’s like I’ll share with you the insecurities.Like when I started this, I’m like, damn, if like 90% of businesses fail in the first five years.


Like is bread and butter.My first like, is this going?To be the no, no it’s not.Well it’s very clear now but it’s not and I’ve anxiety is starting to descend a little bit and I’m getting more comfortable.But back to the insecurities thing and answer your question more directly is like I had a lot of experience and I had had a lot of successes.


And the more that that happens, the more you end up, I believe, seeing something and saying, hey, I’ve made a lot of calls in the past and said I know this is going to work, whether it’s a specific product with a brand, like we’ve added products in the past and they always work.


We’ve had very few products that we’ve added to like brands that didn’t work at some level.So like when I saw this whole thing, I was like, there’s a good opportunity.I will share this.When I started this one, I had to ask myself, I was sitting in my backyard underneath my tiki drinking a beer.And I remember talking out loud to myself, which always makes me feel kind of crazy.


And I sat there, I was looking at my phone, I put it down.I took a deep breath and I was like, Do you have this in you?That’s a great moment.I mean, The thing is that I think, you know, again, I’ve been an entrepreneur.And worked in startups.I had my own company.And you got to really believe it to get started.


And then sort of the more businesses you’ve done in your life, the more you, it’s almost like you become jaded.You know, if you’re 21 in college and you’re like, I’m going to start a business, you don’t know what you don’t know.And at this stage in your career, you also know, and you’ve seen probably friends and other businesses where you’re like, OK, like all your energy goes into this thing that you until it starts to really work.


So let’s talk about that.When you launched, what did you do?Because if it’s only been a year, people heard about you pretty quickly and you got a lot of paddles sold.So what happened?Yeah.So I think it’s a culmination of things.I mean there’s I’ve always told people like you know, hey, like I know I’ve been running pay per click campaigns or been involved in pay per click campaigns for a long time.


So it’s not a an unfamiliar territory with me and like you know, if you tell like a person that doesn’t know about pay per click for the first time like hey.You’re just starting out and you’re making no money.In fact, you’re bleeding cash and we want you to spend like 5 GSA month and we want you to run this thing and see how it works.


Like, it’s very scary, right?It’s scary to me when we did this thing and I’ve always said like, hey, like that pay per click stuff is really important.But I’ve also had people say, hey, like if I was to figure out the pay per click thing, do you think we win?And it’s like, maybe, but there’s way more to it than that.


There’s also the social side of it.There’s the customer service side and the social.I think, you know, we’re in that phase right now with social where it’s like freaking me out, like my phone’s on, which is really nice right now, but like, I still right now am managing most of our social stuff, meaning DMS, all of that.


And I don’t want to like, publicly say that I hate it because I don’t like those relationships, but it is.Well, it’s time consuming, yeah.It’s very time consuming.And when you’ve ran bigger stuff before and you’ve gone through, it’s not your first rodeo and you get messages.


If you’re a neophyte to something, you’re like, oh, maybe I should respond to this person.I can vet someone on social media, whether we want to work with them in 35 seconds.Like it’s like I it’s, I have a little sequence of things that I do and it’s either a yes or no.And so you know, you get pitched all these things.


But point is, is like it’s a combination.It’s social, it’s pay per click.It’s actually having a brand that people are going to resonate with.There’s also relationship building that goes on with facility news and other things, finding out the who’s who of pickleball and choosing who you want to work with.And it’s overwhelming because all those decisions that go on, you’re still trying to bring out new products, you’re still trying to grow up of an e-mail list where they’re using Clavio or whatever you’re using, you know, making sure that all of your stuff is firing on old cylinders.


It is.I know.I mean it really, it’s every startup they when you bring a product to market and it’s kind of experiments, right, because you some things work and some things don’t.You just have to be able to iterate really fast.So when you launch with the SPEAR and the DRIP, how did sales go?We were 150 to 200% month over month January, February, March, April.


May is saying, and so I was like, here’s The thing is, I think a lot of people would look at what our growth was and be like, man, this is going, it’s going to go and like, I’m one of those people that’s like if I get a fire started, I am going to like dump diesel on that freaking thing.Let’s go.So basically I had seen the sales go, but I also by that time again not knowing the whole landscape and not understanding thermoforming and all the other stuff.


I quickly realized after befriending people in the industry that like if we wanted to be like a real paddle company, meaning a paddle that people were like this is my weapon.Like this is what I play with.I realized that we had to do something a little more.So I really quickly like pivoted and we we designed a filth as of right now, been like our hero paddle in it.


We spent a lot of time sampling, tweaking that thing, testing it.I mean, I’ll share with you.But like, I remember the day that I got USAP approved, I was at a local pickleball courts.They had a tournament there and we had a booth set up.I think This is why I got emotional is because everybody’s coming in, they’re looking at the spear and the drips and you could tell the newbies were like, I love these, These are so cute, blah, blah, blah.


And like all the, like, hardos that are coming over with like all black everything and big bags and like, looking like they’re going on pickleball tour.They’re all showing up and like, they look at the paddles and they’re like, Yep, no, no, no.And then we had five filths at the end of the table, and one of them was cut in half so we could explain thermoforming to.


People, that’s awesome.That’s a great idea, yeah.And we put those out, I think on like the second day that we were at the the tournament or maybe was the end of the first and all of a sudden the hardos were walking by and what, what’s that?And I’m like, oh, that’s our newest paddle.It’s a filth.It’s thermoformed and I go hit that real quick and I was like yeah sure they come back and also their interests.


I was like, I was like man, we have got to get this paddle launched and I was waiting that weekend for USAPA approval.Then I had rushed it through approval so I was like on pins and kneels waiting and while I was staying there talking to a bunch of people I got the e-mail bill approved from the USAPA and like I teared up like I was like is it like we’re about to do this?


I knew we could launch.We put it on pre-order the following I think like Tuesday or Wednesday and like sales just I mean it like took off so it’s fun.That’s amazing.These are milestones and businesses.And so when you know when you’ve gotten there and also you know that done is better than perfect, that gets you going.


But when you’re talking about, like you said, like there’s different ranges of rec players and amateur players.And so when you know that you’ve kind of you’re like, OK, we’re going to start with this one paddle, but that you can now reach a whole another segment that’s going to take you very seriously, of course that feels amazing.


I’m curious about that because how do you quantify the market in the sense that there’s probably a lot more rec players that are just out there having fun.Then there are maybe those like amateurs playing tournaments like, you know, you’ve got like the pros and then you’ve got these like.


Hardcore.And then aren’t there more people that are just going to pick up a random paddle?I mean, I don’t know how you segment that, right?Because who you go after, right, Devin my son works for me.My daughter works for me as well.Yes.I wanted to get into your family business in a minute, Yeah, but Devin had come to me with something.


I’ll share with you.We have like customers blowing us up about bringing up a pickleball bag on over the last three days.And I’ve been working on this for a couple weeks, but I’ve been establishing relationships and I’ll come back to like levels of players and how many in market share don’t.Worry.


But Devin had come to me and and brought up something about this pickleball bag that we’re working on.And we have a bag that we’re going to launch like relatively quickly, like probably in the next 100 days, maybe 120.But we hired on this guy that his entire job is to design pickleball back or not pickleball bags, but bags in general.


And he’s been really big in like the backpacking in like hunting industry find like anywhere from $800 bags all the way down to like $200.00 bags.But he does not design and produce like cheap bags.It’s all super like exclusive stuff.


And you know, Devin had come to me, it was either that or another paddle.But he came to me and he was like basically pickleball, paddle nerd talk like Discord, like Chris Wilson at the pickleball.So think that level of like, yeah, this and this and that.And I told Devin I was like, don’t drown in the noise, that whatever the conversation was like, I know that this is a big deal, but also think about how many people do not give a damn about what we’re talking about right now.


There’s a lot.And so it’s very easy when you’re trying to be a company that that is looked at as innovating to an extent.But also when you get wrapped up in trying to work and cater to those people, the next thing you know is that all the other stuff just doesn’t seem important.


And we are trying to walk a fine line because I think to your point, there are a lot more people that love this game and play this game that never tune into the PPA, the MLP, the pro scene.I know a guy locally that’s like A5O player and if he’s not 50, he’s like really close.


And I mean, he’s playing seven days a week, plays anywhere from three to five hours a day.I’m not.My hero, I don’t even know.I don’t even know if he has job.I think he’s unemployed.But anyway, he’s probably watching this and being like I have a job tuck.But anyway, I just don’t.I don’t know how you execute, but my point is, is that he has said to me before, he’s like, I don’t watch pro pickleball.


Like, it’s super boring.So, you know, I think there’s a lot of people now he cares about a good paddle.But he’s also like, I’ve listed paddles like, hey, did you see this paddle?He’s like, I didn’t even know that was out.He doesn’t care.He has his stick.He plays the field, He’s cool with it.He’s working on his skills.


Ben Johns could, like, literally go grab a wooden paddle and just spank people.Right.I mean, I think it’s interesting, which is a good question, we could follow up with is, does it really matter?But I think because there are so many different types of players.You do, which is actually really works to your benefit because, I mean, I have friends I play with that maybe have a recessed paddle with a pretty flower on it paid $250.


They’re thrilled.They’re like, look at my beautiful thing that I have.And they’re not great players.They have fun every time they get out.They don’t care.They’re like, it looks good in my bag and there’s probably a lot of people like that and you’re talking about a global market.On the other hand, there’s people who take it very seriously and they want the Ben John’s name on their paddle or they want to believe that they’re going to play like Ben John’s.


To your point, he probably could, could use anything.But I did.I asked this of a different paddle manufacturer, you know, does it matter?And I’ve gotten some different answers.So I’m curious what you think, Like, it doesn’t matter for the really good player what they play with.You know, in other sports, golf, tennis, like it does matter.


No, it totally matters.I guess the best way to say it is, I think there’s like this arc of like the better the paddle is, the better that your play can be.But there is this certain plateau of like diminishing returns to where like the paddle’s going to carry you so far.Let’s say you’re like A-25 or A3O paddle and you’re hitting us regular sandwich paddle, we’ll use mine.


So I don’t like talk about a recess paddle because our drips are basically a a recess paddle.Somebody could start with a drip and be like a 25 or a three.Oh, have a long way to go, skill set wise and see a really big jump in confidence, putting away shots.


More power, have way more spin on the ball.You mean the spin difference between T700UV printed graphics, cute little flowers, skull with pickleball and it’s a that paddle does not have any spin.I’ll give you numbers.If people are watching this and you want to see like RPM numbers on paddles and you like nerd out about that stuff check out John Q on YouTube.


Really good dude.One of my.Favorite linked him.Yeah he’s great.But John Q had tested our initial trip paddles and like, I don’t have it in front of me, but we’ll like spitball numbers just to give you like an example.But the original drip paddles, I want to say we’re like maybe 1100 or 1200 RPMS on his spin test.


And then we gave him the filth and I think we’re like upwards of like 1850181890.Like, it’s a huge difference.Yeah, with RPMS, so like, the paddle can advance you to lower levels really fast.But then at some point, like if you’re not drilling and you’re not playing against better players and like leveling up your game, then like you could have the best paddle and it’s not going to matter.


Right, exactly.But so that’s a good question.When you made the filth, it’s still kind of cool looking.It’s not you didn’t take away your design, it has your cool design.And I guess that’s sort of a question is, do you think that it’s okay to still bring your branding and put it on a paddle that’s more serious or for more serious players like?


Is that attractive to them?Because I have my own opinion.I’m into branding.I’m into design.I like it a lot.But ultimately I want to play well.And so do you think that you can do both?Yeah, I think you can.You know, we’re testing something our latest came out with.We went like ham on the packaging and like it ships with like a free bottle of hot sauce.


To the first thousand people.It’s like the name the paddles, the loco, and we’re shipping a loco bottle of hot sauce within it.The box is tricked out.The tissue paper is crazy.We’ve got like cool shirts to back it up if people want to buy it and like, but with this paddle we actually went a little more simple on the paddle.


And we did that because probably of of me trying to test the market a little bit to say, hey, do these like paddle nerds, will they take it a little bit more seriously if the paddles not all crazy looking.And you know, I put it out there on Discord, I had it in our own our little thing.


If you go to Pickleball Studios, Discord, there’s a bread and butter thread on there where we can like other paddle nerds.And we have a couple of people that wrote like you guys were known for like crazy paddles.And this new one, I’ve got to admit, it’s looking pretty basic and it’s like.But still, I mean that’s a good question.


You know like I certainly saw your paddle first because of the design, I mean that was where it was noticeable, but then I heard about it being great paddle, I mentioned that.So with the loco, what were the changes you made between?The filth and a loco, besides maybe the design, the only thing we did is like on the infield of the actual sweet spot.


You know the filth has got our basically our lock up for our main logo which is that like ampersand with like the drip on it which a lot of people don’t know this but if you look close we took the ampersand and like quadrupled up the lines and like made this like WAVY kind of trippy pattern to it and that ate up a lot of the face.


But it was he specifically did a really thin so that people wouldn’t be like oh I’m going to lose spin if there’s too much ink output on the you know paddle face.So the difference with the loco is is that we kind of like gave the paddle like its own bread and butter logo which is like this lightning bolt logo that I love.


It’s super cool.I should be wearing that shirt right now.Yeah.Like the I can show.I don’t know if the camera will anyway, It’s like, yeah, and just an overall, the paddle, like, it still has graphics on the paddle, but it’s like not multiplied up.


I mean we had a version of this that had like lightning bolts all over it and yellow.And like I saw and I was like, Oh my gosh, I love this thing.So it was like and here’s The thing is like we’ll probably do like a limited release of that and like take the paddle and do like a complete yellow edge guard and yellow handle on it and just make it like ridiculous.


But also, you know, that’s the challenge with this stuff is when you know you’re selling consumer goods, you also are like, OK, we want to sell to like as many people as we can.I think you shouldn’t go too far.This is my opinion.Not that you care, but I just.I love that limited edition idea just because.


I mean, you think about certain cities that where pickleballs blowing up like you’ve got Manhattan, it’s on fire, right?LA There’s just not enough courts anywhere.Those demographics like they care about that and so as long as they know this paddle is going to perform the same way, I think there is still.


In my opinion, you’d have to test the marketing.But like, different than golf.Where I was actually having this debate with my boyfriend, I was like, OK, there’s no cool golf bags.He’s like, Oh yes there is.Mine has red piping and I was like, no, it’s totally dorky.And no one’s ever gone out on a limb with golf, anything really.


It’s just so traditional.Fine, that’s a different sport.But pickleball, I think there is the opportunity and the fan base is different even at APPA tournament.And the players that play Rack like, I think people do like to have a little flair.I just think it’s a different market.


It is.It’s, I think that it’s, you know, look, if I laid awake at night and was like constantly like I wanna build a paddle that like everybody is gonna like and it’s gonna, you know, just be this broadcasted thing, I would have made us look like Yola or Selkirk or whatever.


You know what I mean?Like that’s like super safe build a giant pickleball company brand like you could you?That’s the way you go.You know, I knew when we did this.That doesn’t mean that B&B can’t be a player in it and can be a big, big or bigger company.But also, you know, I’ll tell you right now, like if I built, I am very good at taking something from like probably like 0 to like 5 or $6 million a year after that, like I’ve become a bad founder.


And what I mean by that is like the second that like C-Suite people are needed, like bro, check me out.Like I don’t.I don’t want to sit in those meetings.I don’t care what John Over Zoom is telling me about numbers.


When I believe in a marketing initiative, like, I just, it doesn’t mean that I don’t listen to people, I listen to a lot of people.But like, you know, you get into those meetings and look, I’ve been in them before and like I get, I want out.You know, you’ve decided to bring on your family.We talked about that a little bit.So it’s still kind of you’re not in that phase yet.


What do you hope happens?I mean, you still have a lot of products you want to develop and come out with, you know, how many paddles do you think you’re going to, like I said, we mentioned a couple other paddle companies that come out with cute designs all the time.You could do that, but what do you, what do you want to do?Yeah, you know, a lot of times people refer to CEOs as like visionaries, you know, especially if you’re like into the whole EOS entrepreneurial operating system thing and having a visionary, an integrator and all these different things alike.


I read the books, I get it.We we’re actually implementing some of that here, but like a very diluted version of because there’s like, it’s so legalistic that I’m like like we’re small.If we do not need an L10 meeting for all of our departments like every single Tuesday and Wednesday, like not need it.


But like, I like organization and I know that it’s key to keeping us on track and it’s going to help us grow and do these things.But like at the end of the day, like as we build and we do this thing, what do I want to happen?Like I’m probably weird in the sense that like I kind of want to take one day at a time and what do they say?


They say that if you’re depressed, you’re living in the past and ruminating on things that have happened.But if you have anxiety, you’re living in the future.And I will tell you that I am not a depressed person.I am more of an anxious person.And so I tend to try to make plans for the future and ruminate on those things.


And the one thing that I refuse to ruminate on about the future when it comes to this corporation or any corporation that I run into, like the US for example, you got you got a one year plan, a five year or three-year plan, a five year and a 10 year plan.I’m not trying to plan this shit out ten years in advance.


I’m not even doing it at five years because in one year we pivoted from sandwich paddles, the thermoform paddles, and we’re now looked at as like a brand that has a competitive paddle who knows where this gets.So you know what I mean?So.I think that’s really smart.I see that in other businesses too, like I think you know I have I work in AI and if whatever happened with ChatGPT in January changed the market for so any kind of planning anyone had, right?


Around that space and I think with pickleball what’s gone on in the past year where there is Major League that the main you know the TV is actually an option now.It’s sort of like the way live golf kind of came out and like they they wanted to shake it up a little bit and then now merging maybe with the PGA.


I I just think if you tried to plan what was happening with pickleball, it wouldn’t be possible anyway.It’s really just more for you.Like, you know, my question is really more, you know, do you want to keep designing paddles?Do you want to bring There’s a lot of other products that people need for pickleball shoes and bags and hats and shirts.


I mean, people are buying a lot of stuff.I know I am.Yeah, I can.I I kind of skirt around.I’ll answer like what I really want.And I think The thing is, is like with my last brand, I had gotten to a point where we had a lot of employees and everything was being handled.


And it’s no secret like towards the end of that like pre COVID, we had like very stable numbers and things were kind of doing its thing.And like it wasn’t working a whole lot.Like I was working maybe like 10 hours a week and I was there for meetings and I made a really good living.And like I was actually enjoying the fruits of my labor.


And like, I’ll share.I mean, like, if that wouldn’t have happened, I don’t even know that I would be still be married because my wife and I had like a four or five year period.There were like, I was like, you know what?Like, I do love this chick.Like it was, it was like, it was like cool, ’cause we got to actually do things and hang out, went on vacations and saw stuff and like took the family places and stuff.


So, like, you know, I think what I’m looking for is it’s I’m back in that mode of like, it’s all business all the time.And like, those relationships tend to, like, suffer again.Like, my wife just got back.She just ran.Shout out to Julie, she just ran the Berlin Marathon.


She was trying to pee.Yeah, she was trying to qualify for Boston because she wants wants to run all the world’s six of them before she like kind of stops her like crazy running career.She’s was in the Marine Corps also.Yeah, she’s a.Badass.


Yeah, she is a badass.And she.She ran like I wouldn’t even fight her, like though she would destroy me.I may be a little bit heavier but like she’s in shape.I’d wind out and be like on the ground sucking air.She was trying to run Berlin because it’s the fastest marathon on the planet speed wise, like flatness and all that.


She had to run a 350 and she ran a 326 and her Garmin, her Garmin actually should 2 watches and one of them actually said 3/19 at 27 miles.So I don’t really know what she ran anyway, point being is.Trying to tie this all back in, like what do I want is I want to be able to travel.


I want to be able to be with my family.But before any of that can happen, I know that again my job over the next 2436 months for this thing to carry on is my job is to bring on and make good staff and hiring decisions.And then from there, once that is done and as that is happening, mentoring people with our voice and our brand and what goes on.


The dangerous thing I think for us is that like, and I’ve never wanted to do this, but B&B is very much like me on the Instagram, me on the YouTube, me and like, that freaks me out because like once you do that and people think it’s you, like I know some people probably hate me.


I think there’s some people that like me too.I doubt it.The thing is, is that like, if I do want to like, take a step back one day, if I go away, the question is who’s going to be there that’s either as likable or more likable that’s going to continue on to keep sales coming, like you said.


I mean, things change as brands get bigger and into different markets and the face becomes a little different.So I think it’s good to stay in the moment.But I I think your brand is so compelling because it’s very relatable.And when I’ve done a lot of interviews in the pickleball space, and what everyone keeps coming back to is a sense of community, a sense of connection, a sense of like being welcomed no matter who you are and what your background is or what you look like or what you’re wearing.


And I mean, I’m in San Francisco, believe me.You see everything on the court, like everything you can imagine.You’re seeing the so totally serious player that shows up with their bag.And then you’re seeing the, like, dog Walker with like braids coming in and there’s, you know, everyone’s having fun.And I think to have a brand that’s very relatable also that doesn’t feel like black diamonds.


It’s just not for everyone.But I I like that you’re crossing.It’s very unique that you’re actually crossing both spaces.You’re able to, like, appeal to the hardcore.I guarantee you a lot of people that play have no idea what Discord is, not to mention what they’re talking about on Discord or Reddit for that matter.


And then there’s the people who are totally immersed.And if if you’re able to play in both space sign, that’s pretty good.And then I did want you to mention that you’ve kind of created a family business, which wasn’t what your intention was to begin with, but it happened, right?Yeah.So my kids probably kill me when they see this stuff all up and I talk like they’re both pretty private people.


And I’m like, obviously not.But yeah, I’ve never like Aurora.My oldest worked at Hoo Rag.But it was a very different scenario in the sense that by that time there was when she first came on, I think there was like. 15 or 18 employees and she was like over in the shipping department and I was like over in the administrative side of the building.


It was a pretty big buildings.Like I mean I literally would go to work and like I would purposely some days try to swing in her side of the building and like walk through and like look around to be like give her a hug and be like hey girl how you doing or whatever.I’ll tell you this, I have worked for family businesses before and I always hated how unprofessional it was where like.


The daughter shows up later and you’re like that.It’s definitely got a drinking problem and like, you know, the dad’s just like, wow, what are we going to do about it?Like it’s family.Like I never wanted that to happen.So my point is is like Aurora has always or has worked with me for a long time and it was, this is very like, I mean we’re in a big building, but like it’s a friend of mine’s building that lets us rent like the space.


It’s just like private CrossFit gym.And so like, he’s like, I don’t use this space.I don’t use that space.Like, and I’m like, I need a non toothy lease.Can this work?He’s like, yes, it’s like we’re all here in this small building, super cool building, but it’s different.We’re eating lunch together every day.


Yeah, we’re talking about like and I purposely bring them in and like, hey, I want to include you guys, this conversation.I’m thinking about doing this like it wasn’t supposed to be this, but there was a transition that happened.Where I ended up taking the complete control of the company a few months ago.


And when that happened I still had the idea that I wanted to grow this thing like from a zero to 36 month get an acquired deal.But when that happened and I gained total control and I had two kids that were 22 and 21 years old that I had like sat at the dinner table for the past 10 years and told them that if you ever come to me and ask for a college degree that doesn’t involve.


You know being a doctor, engineer, attorney or architect, I’m going to tell you the pound saying because every other degree is dumb.Like I like literally pounded that in their hand and I know I may catch some Flack for that on this.But like that’s how I that was my take on it now.And and I will tell you, I’ve, I’ve changed my mindset on that a little bit in the sense that not everybody’s an entrepreneur.


Not everybody can like navigate life and live well without a degree, right.But I had two kids that had listened to that me for so many years.They were both in positions where they.I wouldn’t say that they were lost, but I will say that they were semi lost.


So I I think at that age, I mean I also have kids that age and I know a lot, I think a lot of people feel lost and and some admit it and some don’t.You know, it’s sort of like what world’s scary?There’s a lot of stuff going on, like what am I supposed to do now?


Yeah, yeah.No.And that’s.And so I saw that going on and it was basically like.And I walked into my son’s Devin still lives at our place.And I had walked in and I was like, listen, I was like, I think that I can teach you a bunch of things.And he had actually attempted to do his own little startup thing, which I won’t get into, was still pretty good idea.


Just it needed a lot of it was a very hard first business to get into.And I would love to talk about it because it’s such a good idea.It’s like, but it was just very hard.And I was like, listen, this is something that you hold.This is like one of those Nuggets that you put in your little book.And, like, you come back to, but, like, you don’t know how to run a business yet.


And like, I think if you come work with me, I can teach you things.So that happened.Devon onboarded.So I think I still own, like, a pretty decent chunk of cash because I promise I was like, look, you’re living in my house.I’m going to be.I was.I was making him pay rent at the time.I was auto insurance, and he was paying his own stuff.


And so I said, if you come work for me, I can’t afford to pay you a paycheck.But I’m also like, don’t want you working at the restaurant anymore.You’re going to come into work for me and you’re not getting paid shit, but I promise you that once this gets going, I will make it up to you.So he’s been on payroll for a few months now.


It’s amazing.And but that really is the the the entrepreneurial path.I mean, you kind of I I had a start up.I didn’t pay myself for two years torture.I mean you know you gotta.So you’re really showing him the real ropes?When you did that and you weren’t, when you weren’t getting paid for those two years, like I can only hear your take on this.


Did it drive you like mad?I think I was really committed, just like you.Like where I you kind of have to know you’re on to the right track.And I had like a a timeline where I was like, I’ll this is how long before it’s dangerous because I have kids and I have a family and single mom.Like I gotta make sure.But so I tried to focus more on the business than that.


But I think people say for granted how hard it is for entrepreneurs when they put everything on the line because they see a success story or a failure story and they’re like, Oh well, either like, well, who cares if they paid themselves, look how much they have now.Or well, maybe they shouldn’t have gone down the path of building a widget that no one wanted to buy.


You know, it’s it’s easy to make an opinion, but when you’re in it, I think as an entrepreneur, I don’t.I think I’ve heard you say you hate that word, but too bad.I for seriously go start.I call myself a startup gal, startup guy.If you’re a startup guy, then you need to really believe that you can do something that’s better or different than what’s been done, or you don’t do it right.


Just to clear this up, I know you got that off of another podcast where I said I hate renewers, but I will tell you that the reason why I mean that is not because I don’t have respect for people that are going out or doing their own thing or being a sole proprietor.What I hate is when because of me being involved in business and algorithm and all that, I get served these like 22 year old kids that are like renting a freaking Ferrari on Turo and like.


Running around being like I’m an entrepreneur and I’m like, yeah, you’re probably living in like a 500 square foot like crack house and like have like a you’re like putting out a suit and shooting some Instagram stuff.And you literally like have three clients that you’re running like some digital marketing spend behind and making like no money.


So that’s the only reason I hate, I feel like, you know, we heard about, we heard about how you got started.We heard about the Filth and the Loco and are there any other products that are coming out soon?You mentioned a bag and can people order the bag already?And I hope that everyone will subscribe to this podcast so they can hear and they can see and I’ll share everything, but also I’ll I’ll link all the products in the show notes.


We’ve just done stuff that’s like on the near horizon and I will let me say this too as we’ve caught some Flack where people like.How long is it going to take you to like, come out with a bag?My thing is, is like I’ve got in this office alone, probably 20 garbage pickleball bags that have been shipped from overseas manufacturers that I could slap my logo on and like most people would be OK with it, right?


But like my thing is I like nice stuff and like I want a bag that when I am not playing pickleball.That I can, like, know that’s going to last me 567.I have bags that are like 8 years old, like stuff that I’ve used forever.


I spend.I have a camera bag that’s $300.00.I love the thing.I mean, I travel with it.I put camera gear in it.It’s felt blind.The zipper pulls on it are just like, unbreakable.There’s weatherproof, like, I know what can be done with some of this stuff.And my thing is, is like, I’m at a place in my life where like.


I’ve made inferior products and taken people’s money for them in the past and known that, hey, this is a price point deal and they can’t expect it to last forever and they don’t and that’s OK.But like, again, back to like differentiating and doing what I can do.Like we’re working on a bag.


I found this guy that has been designing like super expensive outdoor bags.I’m talking Thule, Camelback, Sitka.Like, I’m talking like huge brands that have built.Their brands based on gear.I’m talking bags and and I’ve been on the phone with them for on and off for a few days.


I actually have to call them after this podcast to like get everything started.But he gave me the price of what it was to design this bag and like I almost threw up like I was like is that really what this is?I’m like I’m not gonna put that number of what it is on the podcast but like it would be a really, really good down payment on the House.


Like, jeez, just to design the bag.Just to design it.Like, deliberately, like ’cause there’s two to three flights that he takes to Asia to be there for the prototyping, right?Everything’s done.And then, like, not to mention, you know, I’ve literally got to ship him a box with every single thing that I want in this pickleball bag.


And then he goes into his like mad studio and like.Start designing iterations and mocking stuff up and like coming back and like specking out the zipper pools.Like I think this is really important.Doug though I think it’s good for the listeners to hear you talk about it this way and that.


You’ve been applying the same theory to your paddles, which is you have a price point in mind, right?Your paddles are at a good price point and yet your attention to detail and quality is probably far exceeds even the price.I mean, you’re still in business.You can’t.You have to meet them in the middle, but to not want to put your name or your brand on something that’s kind of subpar.


I mean, that’s what it sounds like to me that you have a lot of attention to detail because I think there are paddle companies out there that can stick a label on it and don’t think very hard about the manufacturing or they do their best.But it sounds like you’ve kind of gone that next level with your products.


That’s again, it goes back to like, I like to buy nice things.And when I buy nice things, like there was a time in my life I’ll use Patagonia, for example.Like, I like Patagonia’s clothes.And the reason I do is like, they stand behind them and like when I buy them, like I have this footed, like, I don’t know.


It’s like, I don’t know like what it’s actually made out of.It’s like a rough, like almost canvas, but a little bit lighter weight.I’ve had it for like 7 years and it’s like.This time of year, when Florida begins to cool off, I get excited because I’m like, I get to bust that and wear it again.


The guy spent, I don’t know, was like probably like $150.00 shirt.But like, I love that thing.And that’s my thing is if we’re going to make stuff, let’s make stuff that people love, that they want to wear, that they want to use, that they have no wires.I think just Tooting your horn for the one that’s the Grateful Dead inspired, the skeleton inspired.


I don’t know if it’s Grateful Dead inspired, but out here in San Francisco it is.But I mean people feel really good with that paddle in their hand.They feel like it’s, you know, there’s kind of showing off their brand.And I see, I just interviewed a brand out of LA called Rally Club and other episodes coming out and they have high end luxury pickleball wear.


And these guys are like old school, like serious designers in LA showing at like fancy stores.And they realize that there is a market for people that really want to, you know, show their interest in style and brand.And what I like that you should have marrying with with your brand and with pickleball is that it’s different than some other sports where people really want to add their kind of flair.


And there I that’s a bad word.I don’t know.I don’t really like that word, but their their style.Or whatever swagger.Yeah, yeah, I don’t know.Whatever you like.Whatever you want to call, whatever floats your bow.But yeah, no, It’s their own personal identity.It’s how they want to look.It’s how they want to feel.And I want people to, when they give us money for something, I don’t want to go to sleep at night and be like, feel like I tricked them into buying something that’s like, not great.


Like I want to be like.And I’ve had people like when people come to me in the course, like, dude, I bought the field and I love this thing you want to talk about like dopamine.For me it’s like, I really like get off of them.I’m like, I’m like, yes, like that’s when I know we’re doing stuff, right.So, you know, circle all back around.


Like we’ve got a couple paddles that we’re working on right now that are, you know, with the Locos getting ready to launch.But I’ve got two other paddles coming behind that that we’re trying to drop Q1 and Q2 of 2024.And then we’ve got, they may come a little faster depending on like how smoothly things go.


And then we’ve got this bag that we’re working on.We are launching another bag.We’re very close I think to like fixing some of the issues with it that we had.And it is going to be a bag that’s not going to be like a $200.00 bag.It’s probably going to be like a probably like $120.00 bag.


It’s still going to be very good, maybe as close to or closer to 100, it’s going to be very good.But like we’re trying to get that done.And then this one that we’re starting on.The good bag, I mean I’ll share with you.Like I’d almost rather say it now you don’t blow us up after seeing this, but like that bag is not even going to be, we’re starting with this guy like this week or next week on the whole process.


That bag won’t even be shipping till July of next year.Yeah, but everybody needs to hold their horses and they’re going to get their bag.Just relax.I think you’re putting your, like I said, you’re putting your attention to detail.It’s it means a lot.And then with those paddles that are coming out, are those different?


Are they different for a different purpose or just different designs on the same?Experience, yeah.Different materials.I will say I don’t, I don’t want to talk about that.Blah blah, blah.There’s, I can give you a little bit of information.There’s a different surface material that we’re going to use and then there’s also.Different core that we’re going to use on the paddle and they’re both kind of like simultaneously being worked on.


But you know, the other side is too, As I always think of my head, I’m like here I am designing other paddles.We have the filth.That’s amazing.The loco is going to be amazing.There’s part of this too, that I’m like, and I’ll be trans people.People, by the way, still really like the drip.Yeah, no, they do.They didn’t say that paddle.Yeah, yeah, I’ll let’s talk about that real quick to like and this is a good like kind of segue into one of the reasons why those two lines will not go away is and this is a huge.


Talking about pickleball as a business and culture and what I see going on that kind of, well, if I’d say it irritates me because I don’t want to offend people, but like, it does kind of irritate me.So I guess I’ll say it irritates me.But when I go play pickleball, like it’s no secret, like I’m not a good pickleball player.


And like when I go to the local courts, some of the players that are good in my area always like don’t come on and play with us.Let’s hang out, play a game with us.And I’m always like guys like you don’t want to play with me and they’re like.No, come on, come play with us.


And I get on the court and we end up there.Like, yeah, no, we actually really don’t want to play with you.You suck.And I’m like, yeah, I know, I know.I do.Like, that’s why I told you I didn’t want to do this in the 1st place.But The thing is, the only reason that they want to play with me is because like we’re in Vero Beach.I own bread and butter pickleball and they think it’s cool that, like, the owner’s out there and I’m going to play pickleball with them.


Then they get severely disappointed that I’m terrible at the game.My point is those those same guys will play with me because of that.But if a new player comes on the court and you know what they look like, they show up with like the Amazon Paddle.It’s got like a cute design or a crazy totally.


Or whatever.And they walk on and they like, don’t have a bag.They typically have like a bottle of water and like they’re wearing running shoes and you’re thinking, man, they’re going to roll their ankle and hurt themselves.Like all of these things like easy to identify them.Those guys will see them walk on the court and what does everyone do?


They’re like and they’re like walk away.They’re like, I’m not messing with this person.And here’s the thing.I get that people want competitive play.They want to go there, they want to work out, they want to get better.And I understand that.I think the problem is, and This is why I never want to stop selling the drip and the spear is because those cool designs that we have bring new players into the game.


Yes, for me that is all we have as a pickleball community to ensure the growth of the sport because the 2nd that new people.Stop showing up resources, money, investments and everything stops for the entire industry.So I encourage you 4 O to 5 or even 3 fives to to five O players.


I would encourage you guys to every time you the goody court if you can take how long is 1.One game take especially if you’re going to like whoop these guys like take 15 minutes play with them show them that like hey you guys are using outdoor balls like.


This is a 40 hole outdoor ball.This is what you need to be using.Like if I said they’re using indoor balls but like or they’re stepping into the kitchen all the time.Like all these little things are like they have a bad serve or they’re coming over their waist with the serve and it’s illegal.Like each these people and make them feel welcome because when I have traveled and I don’t wear bread and butter or anything and I just like go to play somewhere, I don’t want even to know who I am.


Like, I’ll go in there and play and like people are kind of freaking rude.It depends.I mean, I think you’re, I would just say what you’re saying is really important, right?We as a community want the sport to continue to grow for so many reasons and that that there are so many people even, you know, I go to a place in San Francisco and you’ve got all different levels.


There’s always someone who’s willing to say just come play with us and it’s usually like some guy who’s been there for years and loves the game and he just wants to take people under their wing and and teach them the ropes.You know, those are those people, those women, men exist.And I think you’re right.It’s super important.


And then there’s, you know there’s it’s a big market.There are opportunities for people to go there, four or fives, go play and just.Go at it for an hour.And but I even see, you know, dads and moms teaching their kids and, you know, and then the kids start getting better than they do.


So I I do think I I agree with you.It’s, it sounds like, you know, there’s some good players in your area.But I remember when I first started playing and feeling like I didn’t know what I was doing.And then I think I’ve been one of those people every once in a while where I’ve had to wait for 45 minutes, get on the court and someone’s not great.


And I’m like, oh man, like, come on, I just waited so long.But so this is a good reminder for me too, even though I’m not an excellent player either yet.But well, listen, Doug, this was awesome.I’m excited about bread, but I was really excited when we connected.Don’t stop putting your amazing design and branding into awesome paddles and products because I think that’s what makes your brand unique and different.


Stand out and why you are getting so much interest, you know, so you’re going to get those people saying what they want to say, but I think you have you really backing up your brand by bringing in the right people to your company.So congratulations.It’s been great.I appreciate you taking the time.It’s a good way to to end Friday.


We’re going to get after the local.By the way, before I go, can I show this thing for time?Just, yes.Yeah, please.So I’ll just tell tell everybody, but so the reason why we did this battle real quick is because the filth is an elongated paddle and this is a hybrid shaped paddle.So it’s a little bit shorter, a little bit wider.


A little bit bigger of a sweet spot, also 16 millimeters.It’s going to have a lower swing weight and it’s a little bit faster in the hands.And this has been like these hybrid shapes have been popular.Know a lot of people it’s it’s, you know, some people like the elongated, some people like the hybrid and we just wanted to basically like have one of each of those so that people can choose with a lower swing weight or a higher swing weight, probably not as much.


Plow through on the ball, on the loco, you know, So it’s we’re excited about it and like I said, really shot a bunch of stuff.I gotta go edit entrepreneur doing everything.Well, I know that game, but that’s awesome.I I talked to another manufacturer that had was just coming out with a hybrid.


And I think I think that’s smart because there are players who are very specific about whether they prefer the elongated or looks bigger sweet spot.And I think as this technology keeps improving and players understanding of like how’s my game going to be different or what’s my personal game like how do I normally play and what does well for me.


And a lot of the crossover tennis players who are just bangers needing to understand that they might need to learn how to dink or spin or like do some things.And so they’re going to be interested in the paddle.And then, you know, different than tennis people would buy a lot of paddles.


I mean, we’ve got a lot of paddles in my house that my boyfriend brings home.He’s always trying to play.He’s like, well, maybe this one, maybe this one have.We shipped you anything yet?No.Feel free.But we’ll we’ll order you.We’ll order something, don’t worry.We’ll set Well, you had to deal with an hour and 20 minutes.


You get a free battle.But I just, I mean, like, I think people really well, first of all, you almost have to have a backup paddle just in case like someone shows up without one or something.I’ve seen a lot of people crack their their paddles on purpose.


They get so frustrated.So I think the market’s only expanding different than tennis where you might have one for 12 years.So sure, yeah.So anyway, we’ll.I I I appreciate it and like I think what you’re doing is super cool too.And thanks.Yeah, reach out, keep me posted of anything new and it, like I said to everyone who’s listening, Subscribe, smash the buttons, all that stuff because we want to keep up to date and keep you abreast of all the new paddles and also the new products coming out and bread and butter.


All the links will be in our show notes and around our site because we love your stuff.Yeah, and so you guys can go to on on Crystal’s podcast, the YouTube link, whatever.Like if you’re watching this, like jump in there with questions and comments and.We’re like comment maniacs like we’ll try to engage with you all as as much as you can.


I know someone’s going to hear me say you’re getting a free paddle and they’re going to ask for a pre battle and the answer is no.Buy 1.Crystal gets one.We’ll probably buy one anyway.Yeah, tell them they’d have to win a giveaway or something.Well, awesome Doug.Enjoy the rest of your weekend, your Friday with your family.


Tell them they’re doing a great job too, because I know it’s it’s a company putting this together.It’s not just you, but but tell them all they’re doing a great job.They’re all helpful.We’re doing it together.Awesome.Thank you for it.Thank you.Hey guys, thanks for listening to Simply Pickleball.We will be back very soon with great interviews, discussions and more, all about Pickleball.


Don’t forget to subscribe to our channels on YouTube, Twitter, Instagram or any of your favorite podcasting outlet. Until next time, happy dinking.


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